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» Zero AMP Issues (View)10:35 14.10.06
Hi, been very busy over the last while, so I haven't been making the usual check on these forums.

I understand a lot are having issues, just for the sake of covering the usual ones, try the following...

If the ZAMP launcher won't work at all...

- Installing .Net V1.1 (Later versions might work, but if you still have issues with the launcher you might want to consider installing this version)

Problems when using ZAMP

- Make sure you run the updater before using it.

- Do not close the launcher after WB loads up, close it after you finish the map and close the WB, the way ZAMP works is that it loads a temporary mod which allows you to use the map.ini specified objects in WB, this mod is NOT to be activated during gameplay and closing the launcher prematurely would do this.

- Other mods may well cause conflict, of those who still can't figure out the problem, please tell me whether you have a mod installed or not.

- Incidentally, I will run over the map.ini, it may have some odd bugs.

» News: EA Q&A Location Revealed (View)13:51 12.02.06
Obviously EA don't even Q&A their own Q&A building... Grin

» First car :D (View)21:36 08.02.06
congrats Ash on the car...

makes me green with envy Grin, I should have had my first car by now, I did my driving test in December, had a bad cold and there was unbelievable rain, I failed it by two errors...Unhappy.

I honestly feel, if it hadn't rained that day or I wasn't sick, I would have got it.

As for first near misses, when I first began to practice driving in my mother's car, I rammed it right into my Dad's car (our drive-way is sloped and turns, its a little tricky to reverse out you see), I think, strangely enough, its the best thing that could have happened to me, now I'm REALLY wairy when driving, haven't had anything that resembled a 'near' miss never mind an accident.

» adjectives process (View)21:30 08.02.06
?

Don't you mean 'objectives'?

» Who maps? (View)19:26 10.01.06
Well if you've got YR, it comes with Final Alert 2, which is the mapping program.

» Opinion on Bush (View)14:55 03.01.06

Originally posted by thecommander...

Originally posted by Waraddict...

Originally posted by bigguy563...


You do realise that there are hundreds of sources a terrorist organisation can get nuclear weaponry in the world? Iraq not being one of them, think former Soviet Empire nuclear facilities which are completely abandoned and without security, in other words, if NBCs (Nuclear Biological Chemical weapons, WMD is an incorrect abstract statement) getting into the hands of a terrorist organisation is your fear, chances they already have them.




Here you seem to imply that there are a lot of places terrorists can get NBCs or whatever else you want to call them. If such places can provide for terrorists, surely there would be more than one. So basically in one post you say numerous organizations could have multiple, and another that those organizations have only one. The American Democratic Party would be proud. Tongue



You're not thinking very logically, again you're thinking of terrorists as one single group, my point was that dozens of terrorist organisations probably have nuclear bombs from places like abandoned former soviet union missile silos, but each probably don't have more then one. Besides, that's just a guess, what I am only hilighting is that this scenario is a hundred times more plausable then your irrational fear of Saddam supplying islamic terrorists with one single nuclear bomb. And as for your Democrat remark, its really bloody typical for a Democrat to point at an irrelevant inconsistency in their apponent's arguement when they feel they can't support their own view properly.


in case that u dont knew this fact:
the soviet union and the u.s. have enough nuclear bombs 2 kill all humans on this planet.
so if the terrorists have nuclear wepons they sure have more then 1 bomb.



'THE' Terrorists?

» Opinion on Bush (View)12:22 03.01.06
Well frankly it seems futile to me preventing a speculated possible posession of one nuclear weapon while other countries out there have dozens and one particular country has hundreds ungaurded and ready for the picking.

Unless Bush is about to go on an anti-nuclear crusade, I have no other reason but to believe he's just a master of deception.

» Opinion on Bush (View)23:02 02.01.06

Originally posted by bigguy563...


You do realise that there are hundreds of sources a terrorist organisation can get nuclear weaponry in the world? Iraq not being one of them, think former Soviet Empire nuclear facilities which are completely abandoned and without security, in other words, if NBCs (Nuclear Biological Chemical weapons, WMD is an incorrect abstract statement) getting into the hands of a terrorist organisation is your fear, chances they already have them.




Here you seem to imply that there are a lot of places terrorists can get NBCs or whatever else you want to call them. If such places can provide for terrorists, surely there would be more than one. So basically in one post you say numerous organizations could have multiple, and another that those organizations have only one. The American Democratic Party would be proud. Tongue



You're not thinking very logically, again you're thinking of terrorists as one single group, my point was that dozens of terrorist organisations probably have nuclear bombs from places like abandoned former soviet union missile silos, but each probably don't have more then one. Besides, that's just a guess, what I am only hilighting is that this scenario is a hundred times more plausable then your irrational fear of Saddam supplying islamic terrorists with one single nuclear bomb. And as for your Democrat remark, its really bloody typical for a Democrat to point at an irrelevant inconsistency in their apponent's arguement when they feel they can't support their own view properly.


» Opinion on Bush (View)14:00 02.01.06

Originally posted by bigguy563...
Well if terrorists already have them, then why hasn't anything hinting to that happened? Do you think that the terrorists are stockpiling?



Be careful there with how you fraise things, 'the terrorists' imply there's only one big terrorist organisation, its most likely that if any terrorist organisations have these nuclear weapons, they don't have more then one.

Also, a nuclear bomb is a VERY rare asset, I don't think any terrorist organisation would use it hastily, besides, you've seen what 9/11 did to America, it woke up a sleeping giant, a nuclear bomb used prematurely against a country could easily provoke that country in a way that the attacking terrorist organisation would seriously regret. If one of these organisation are to use such a weapon, it will be at a VERY unique point in time.

» Opinion on Bush (View)23:43 01.01.06

Originally posted by bigguy563...
I'm pointing out that right now, terrorists and evil dictators aren't completely working hand in hand, but if Saddam had developed WMDs, it would present itself as a way for the terrorists to achieve their goals, so they would work together. So, by what you said I'm right in saying that they're not on the same side.



My God, talk about speculation, that makes even less sense then the Soviets giving terrorists nuclear bombs.

You do realise that there are hundreds of sources a terrorist organisation can get nuclear weaponry in the world? Iraq not being one of them, think former Soviet Empire nuclear facilities which are completely abandoned and without security, in other words, if NBCs (Nuclear Biological Chemical weapons, WMD is an incorrect abstract statement) getting into the hands of a terrorist organisation is your fear, chances they already have them.

Plus, to be frank, expect hell with Nuclear weapons in the future, the world's only superpower gives the worst example in avoiding the use and production of such weapons, the US has 20,000 nuclear warheads, enough to blow up the whole planet a few dozen times. Because the US possess such a rediculous number of these evil weapons, a lot of countries in the world see 'no harm' in possessing 1 or 2, which is frankly horrible logic.

» Opinion on Bush (View)07:09 30.12.05

Originally posted by bigguy563...
I didn't say all bad guys support terrorism, but there is no doubt that Saddam was one that did. Or at any rate, he did express admiration for the terrorist actions of 9/11, and certainly would not have hesitated to help Al Quada.



No offense, but all your arguments seem to be inspired by fear, Saddam, if you bothered to check, was an extremely SECULAR dictator, the last group he'd associate with are islamic terrorists as they themselves would have liked to kill him.

Saddam, nonetheless, hated America and what it stands for, so of course for the sake of pissing Americans off he approved of 9/11 despite the fact the people who did 9/11 would love to beat the crap out of him.

Now don't get me wrong here, he was certainly an evil son of a bitch but evil isn't a united thing in this world, thanks be to God. If we fool our selves otherwise we'll only create our own problems.

» Opinion on Bush (View)23:37 29.12.05
He was not supporting Terrorism, the world is not two dimensional where all bad guys ally against all the good guys.

This is what I hate Bush for, he's turned a lot of Americans into two dimensional thinkers. It would make as much sense 20 years ago to throw in the Communists in with Saddam and Terrorists aswell.

» Opinion on Bush (View)15:39 29.12.05
Woah, this thread has turned into a pile of crap....

» warning! (View)12:13 29.12.05
Has anyone met the sort of person that bothers to create these viri? (spelling for plural?)

Honestly I think they must be the biggest loners and time-waisters you could come across, because I've certainly never met one.

» Introducing Each other (View)22:49 28.12.05
As far as I know, there aren't any map.ini tutorials, however, if you know how to code a mod it isn't too hard to learn.

Here are a few pointers

1. Always make sure that any map.ini entry doesn't use something which is specified after it, e.g., an object which uses an OCL which is specified after the object is specified, instead you should have the OCL before the object, this goes for everything.

2. Get to know the AddModule, ReplaceModule and RemoveModule tags.

A. AddModule - this is used when you are adding a module to an object, if you were adding a drone feature to the American Dozer, it would appear as the following in your map.ini...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Object AmericaVehicleDozer

AddModule

Behavior = ObjectCreationUpgrade ModuleTag_06a
UpgradeObject = OCL_AmericanBattleDrone
TriggeredBy = Upgrade_AmericaBattleDrone
ConflictsWith = Upgrade_AmericaScoutDrone Upgrade_AmericaHellfireDrone
End
Behavior = ObjectCreationUpgrade ModuleTag_07a
UpgradeObject = OCL_AmericanScoutDrone
TriggeredBy = Upgrade_AmericaScoutDrone
ConflictsWith = Upgrade_AmericaBattleDrone Upgrade_AmericaHellfireDrone
End
Behavior = ObjectCreationUpgrade ModuleTag_14a
UpgradeObject = OCL_AmericanHellfireDrone
TriggeredBy = Upgrade_AmericaHellfireDrone
ConflictsWith = Upgrade_AmericaBattleDrone Upgrade_AmericaScoutDrone
End
End
End
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice that you have to have an 'End' for the AddModule Tag, also, don't name your Modules conventionally, e.g. ModuleTag_xx, where 'xx' is a 2 figured number.

B. ReplaceModule - Use this to change a current module belonging to an object, e.g., lets say you want to change the OCL for the battledrone upgrade belonging to the Humvee, in which case it would be the following...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Object AmericaVehicleHumvee

ReplaceModule ModuleTag_06
Behavior = ObjectCreationUpgrade ModuleTag_06b
UpgradeObject = OCL_MyOCL
TriggeredBy = Upgrade_AmericaBattleDrone
ConflictsWith = Upgrade_AmericaScoutDrone Upgrade_AmericaHellfireDrone
End
End
End

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ModuleTag name after 'ReplaceModule' is the ModuleTag name of the ObjectCreationUpgrade module for the humvee's battledrone upgrade in the AmericaVehicle.ini. Make sure that you name your replacement module differently. ReplaceModule also needs an 'End'.

C. RemoveModule - Use this to turn off a module belonging to an object, e.g., if you wanted to disable the Battledrone upgrade for the Humvee, just do the following...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Object AmericaVehicleHumvee

RemoveModule ModuleTag_06

End

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RemoveModule does not need an 'End'.

3. Creating a new unit within map.inis

Slight bit dodgy doing this, in most cases, any newly defined object, except system and weapon objects, need three default specified modules defined in the Object.ini removed, and all the other modules need to be encapsulated in an 'AddModule' tag. For instance, here's the code for the beta scorpion I have defined in Zero AMP. If you have any further errors with a new unit, make sure you are following point number 1 properly, do not give a new unit anything which has not been specified yet along the map.ini.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Object ZAMP_GLATankScorpionB

RemoveModule ModuleTag_DefaultInactiveBody

RemoveModule ModuleTag_DefaultDestroyDie

RemoveModule ModuleTag_DefaultW3DDefaultDraw

AddModule
; *** ART Parameters ***
SelectPortrait = SUScorpion_L
ButtonImage = SUScorpion

UpgradeCameo1 = Upgrade_GLAScorpionRocket
UpgradeCameo2 = Upgrade_GLAAPRockets
UpgradeCameo3 = Upgrade_GLAToxinShells
UpgradeCameo4 = Upgrade_GLAJunkRepair
;UpgradeCameo5 = NONE

Draw = W3DTankDraw ModuleTag_01
OkToChangeModelColor = Yes

ProjectileBoneFeedbackEnabledSlots = SECONDARY ; WeaponLaunchBone will be shown/hidden, not just used for firing offset

; ------------ Normal
DefaultConditionState
Model = UVScorpion
Turret = Turret ; Logic twist bone is always this, both turrets are subobjects of it, as are both missile racks
; note, order-dependent: we must hide/show Missile AFTER we hide/show MissileRack!
ShowSubObject = Turret01
HideSubObject = MissleRack01 MissleRack02 TurretUP01; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
WeaponFireFXBone = PRIMARY Muzzle
WeaponRecoilBone = PRIMARY Barrel
WeaponMuzzleFlash = PRIMARY MuzzleFX
WeaponLaunchBone = PRIMARY Muzzle
End

ConditionState = REALLYDAMAGED
Model = UVScorpion_d
End
AliasConditionState = RUBBLE

; ------------ With big turret
ConditionState = WEAPONSET_CRATEUPGRADE_ONE ; one or two crates is a turret switch
;ShowSubObject = TurretUP01
;HideSubObject = MissleRack01 MissleRack02 Turret01 ; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
End
AliasConditionState = WEAPONSET_CRATEUPGRADE_TWO

ConditionState = WEAPONSET_CRATEUPGRADE_ONE REALLYDAMAGED
Model = UVScorpion_d
;ShowSubObject = TurretUP01
;HideSubObject = MissleRack01 MissleRack02 Turret01 ; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
End
AliasConditionState = WEAPONSET_CRATEUPGRADE_TWO REALLYDAMAGED

; ---------- With missile
ConditionState = WEAPONSET_PLAYER_UPGRADE
;ShowSubObject = MissleRack01 Turret01
;HideSubObject = MissleRack02 TurretUP01; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
WeaponFireFXBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
WeaponLaunchBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
End

ConditionState = WEAPONSET_PLAYER_UPGRADE REALLYDAMAGED
Model = UVScorpion_d
;ShowSubObject = MissleRack01 Turret01
;HideSubObject = MissleRack02 TurretUP01; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
WeaponFireFXBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
WeaponLaunchBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
End

; ---------- With missile and big turret
ConditionState = WEAPONSET_PLAYER_UPGRADE WEAPONSET_CRATEUPGRADE_ONE
;ShowSubObject = MissleRack01 TurretUP01
;HideSubObject = MissleRack02 Turret01; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
WeaponFireFXBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
WeaponLaunchBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
End

ConditionState = WEAPONSET_PLAYER_UPGRADE WEAPONSET_CRATEUPGRADE_ONE REALLYDAMAGED
Model = UVScorpion_d
;ShowSubObject = MissleRack01 TurretUP01
;HideSubObject = MissleRack02 Turret01; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
WeaponFireFXBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
WeaponLaunchBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
End

; ---------- With two missiles and big turret
ConditionState = WEAPONSET_PLAYER_UPGRADE WEAPONSET_CRATEUPGRADE_TWO
;ShowSubObject = MissleRack01 MissleRack02 TurretUP01
;HideSubObject = Turret01; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
WeaponFireFXBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
WeaponLaunchBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
End

ConditionState = WEAPONSET_PLAYER_UPGRADE WEAPONSET_CRATEUPGRADE_TWO REALLYDAMAGED
Model = UVScorpion_d
;ShowSubObject = MissleRack01 MissleRack02 TurretUP01
;HideSubObject = Turret01; MissileRack misspelled in the Art
WeaponFireFXBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
WeaponLaunchBone = SECONDARY WeaponA
End

TrackMarks = EXTnkTrack.tga
TreadAnimationRate = 2.0 ; amount of tread texture to move per second
End

Body = ActiveBody ModuleTag_02
MaxHealth = 450.0
InitialHealth = 450.0

; Subdual damage "Subdues" you (reaction defined by BodyModule) when it passes your max health.
; The cap limits how extra-subdued you can be, and the other numbers detemine how fast it drains away on its own.
SubdualDamageCap = 740
SubdualDamageHealRate = 500
SubdualDamageHealAmount = 50
End

Behavior = AIUpdateInterface ModuleTag_03
AutoAcquireEnemiesWhenIdle = Yes
End

Behavior = PhysicsBehavior ModuleTag_04
Mass = 50.0
End
Behavior = AutoHealBehavior ModuleTag_05
HealingAmount = 2
HealingDelay = 1000 ; msec
TriggeredBy = Upgrade_GLAJunkRepair
End

; Catch fire, and explode death
Behavior = SlowDeathBehavior ModuleTag_06
DeathTypes = ALL -CRUSHED -SPLATTED
ProbabilityModifier = 50
DestructionDelay = 2000
DestructionDelayVariance = 300
FX = INITIAL FX_CrusaderCatchFire
OCL = FINAL OCL_ScorpionTankDeathEffect
FX = FINAL FX_BattleMasterExplosionOneFinal
End

Behavior = WeaponSetUpgrade ModuleTag_07
TriggeredBy = Upgrade_GLAScorpionRocket
End

Behavior = DestroyDie ModuleTag_09
DeathTypes = NONE +CRUSHED +SPLATTED
End

; A crushing defeat
Behavior = FXListDie ModuleTag_10
DeathTypes = NONE +CRUSHED +SPLATTED
DeathFX = FX_CarCrush
End
Behavior = CreateObjectDie ModuleTag_11
DeathTypes = NONE +CRUSHED +SPLATTED
CreationList = OCL_CrusaderTank_CrushEffect
End
Behavior = CreateCrateDie ModuleTag_12
CrateData = SalvageCrateData
;CrateData = EliteTankCrateData
;CrateData = HeroicTankCrateData
End

Behavior = TransitionDamageFX ModuleTag_13
ReallyDamagedParticleSystem1 = Bone:Smoke RandomBone:Yes PSys:SmallLightSmokeColumn
ReallyDamagedFXList1 = Loc: X:0 Y:0 Z:0 FXList:FX_BattleMasterDamageTransition
End

Behavior = FlammableUpdate ModuleTag_21
AflameDuration = 5000 ; If I catch fire, I'll burn for this long...
AflameDamageAmount = 3 ; taking this much damage...
AflameDamageDelay = 500 ; this often.
End

Behavior = TransportContain ModuleTag_22
PassengersAllowedToFire = Yes
Slots = 3
DamagePercentToUnits = 100%
AllowInsideKindOf = INFANTRY
ExitDelay = 250
NumberOfExitPaths = 3 ; Defaults to 1. Set 0 to not use ExitStart/ExitEnd, set higher than 1 to use ExitStart01-nn/ExitEnd01-nn
GoAggressiveOnExit = Yes ; AI Will tell people to set their mood to Aggressive on exiting
WeaponBonusPassedToPassengers = Yes
DelayExitInAir = Yes
ArmedRidersUpgradeMyWeaponSet = Yes
End

End

; ***DESIGN parameters ***
DisplayName = OBJECT:Scorpion
Side = GLA
EditorSorting = VEHICLE
TransportSlotCount = 3 ;how many "slots" we take in a transport (0 == not transportable)

WeaponSet
Conditions = None
Weapon = PRIMARY ScorpionTankGun
Weapon = SECONDARY None
End
WeaponSet
Conditions = PLAYER_UPGRADE
Weapon = PRIMARY ScorpionTankGun
Weapon = SECONDARY ScorpionMissileWeapon
End
WeaponSet
Conditions = CrateUpgrade_ONE
Weapon = PRIMARY ScorpionTankGunPlusOne
Weapon = SECONDARY None
End
WeaponSet
Conditions = CrateUpgrade_ONE PLAYER_UPGRADE
Weapon = PRIMARY ScorpionTankGunPlusOne
Weapon = SECONDARY ScorpionMissileWeapon ; No bonus at Plus One
End
WeaponSet
Conditions = CrateUpgrade_TWO
Weapon = PRIMARY ScorpionTankGunPlusOne ; No further bonus at plus two
Weapon = SECONDARY None
End
WeaponSet
Conditions = CrateUpgrade_TWO PLAYER_UPGRADE
Weapon = PRIMARY ScorpionTankGunPlusOne ; No further bonus at plus two
Weapon = SECONDARY ScorpionMissileWeaponPlusTwo
End

ArmorSet
Conditions = None
Armor = TankArmor
DamageFX = TankDamageFX
End
BuildCost = 600
BuildTime = 7.0 ;in seconds
VisionRange = 125
ShroudClearingRange = 300
Prerequisites
Object = GLAArmsDealer
End

ExperienceValue = 60 60 120 200 ;Experience point value at each level
ExperienceRequired = 0 100 200 400 ;Experience points needed to gain each level
IsTrainable = Yes ;Can gain experience
CrusherLevel = 2 ;What can I crush?: 1 = infantry, 2 = trees, 3 = vehicles
CrushableLevel = 2 ;What am I?: 0 = for infantry, 1 = for trees, 2 = general vehicles
CommandSet = GLAVehicleTechnicalCommandSet

; *** AUDIO Parameters ***
VoiceSelect = ScorpionTankVoiceSelect
VoiceMove = ScorpionTankVoiceMove
VoiceAttack = ScorpionTankVoiceAttack
SoundMoveStart = ScorpionTankMoveStart
SoundMoveStartDamaged = ScorpionTankMoveStart
VoiceGuard = ScorpionTankVoiceMove

UnitSpecificSounds
; These have the syntax of SomeNameSomewhereInCode = SomeNameSomewhereInLookupINIs
VoiceCreate = ScorpionTankVoiceCreate
;TurretMoveStart = NoSound
TurretMoveLoop = TurretMoveLoop
VoiceEnter = ScorpionTankVoiceMove
End

; *** ENGINEERING Parameters ***
RadarPriority = UNIT
KindOf = PRELOAD SELECTABLE CAN_ATTACK ATTACK_NEEDS_LINE_OF_SIGHT CAN_CAST_REFLECTIONS VEHICLE SALVAGER WEAPON_SALVAGER SCORE

Locomotor = SET_NORMAL ScorpionLocomotor
Geometry = BOX
GeometryMajorRadius = 14.0
GeometryMinorRadius = 9.0
GeometryHeight = 10.5
GeometryIsSmall = Yes
Shadow = SHADOW_VOLUME
ShadowSizeX = 45 ; minimum elevation angle above horizon. Used to limit shadow length

End

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

» Original tanks (View)23:53 19.12.05
Oh all the unused civilian buildings in, Im afraid any left out from the Generals beta shots were simply not included in the big files by EA. I'm afraid that you do have to do the rest yourself.

» Original tanks (View)18:09 19.12.05
well everything mentioned here except in my last reply has been added in the last update, you given the ZAMP_Leopard a try? It would be in your current version as I uploaded it before you updated.

Anyway, Im unsure as of yet what will be going into the next update, but things for sure, I want to update the actual application first as there is one slight error in the design. That is that the latest assets are only enabled for newly made maps, you get around this though by opening a previous version Zero AMP map and doing a 'Save as'.

It will be fixed soon enough though.

» Opinion on Bush (View)15:17 17.12.05
That's how you take care of a suicide bomber, not the overall problem of terrorism.

» Was this girly? (View)23:49 15.12.05
How's 'heheh' in your books Rob? That masculine enough? Happy

Heh, atleasts he didn't go 'teeheehee', that would have been deeply concerning... Grin

» Opinion on Bush (View)18:23 15.12.05

Originally posted by erikmcfar...

Originally posted by Waraddict...
On the contrary, as I stated in my reply, I detest simplicity. The only point I made about terrorism was that a simplistic cause (they did it out of hate and hate only) is obviously wrong, I did not say that all terrorist causes are the same.

The use of suicide tactics is not a valid reason to treat a terrorist organisation with simplistic strategy either, it is infact a reason to do the opposite, force did not help the situation at all in Northern Ireland, it made it worse, and this was in a VERY small corner of the world, Islamic Terrorism poses a bigger problem due to suicide tactics and its a problem that is evident in a much larger area then Northern Ireland, this requires a much more cautious and complicated strategy to deal with it.

Keep in mind, what we 'feel' is right to do is different what should be done, don't get me wrong but I really wish the Irish Defence Forces were sent after the IRA's ass, I want to see those finatical godless bastards wiped off the face of the Earth, but that tactic will not work at all. Same applies to Islamic Terrorism.

What the hell are you supposed to do with them, then? You can't negotiate with them? The only option I see is to find them, hunt them and their supporters down. You remove the institutions that allow their nonsense and set up ones that don't allow their tom foolery.



That's the thing, whatever the solutions are, they're very difficult to formulate, why? because there is no perfect solution, with these sort of problems you have to put ALOT of analysation, speculation and synthisisation into it in order to arrive to a solution which trades off the right 'goods' and 'bads' to the problem. It's highly unlikely that in a post like this we could arrive to the right approach, but just because of that it doesn't mean that we should use the most simplistic solution which is pure force, especially when force is usually more often a primitive reaction then a logical one.


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